Moody 36 (90s) 90s M36 - cracks in hull at corners of bilge keels

[Tom Bradshaw]

Hello. After a longtime looking I have found my dream boat – a very good condition and well specced 1998 Moody 36 bilge keeler, which I currently have under offer. We had a survey carried out this week with the boat hauled out for a full inspection. Everything looked good, other than some small cracks found in the GRP extending from the corners of the bilge keels. These cracks extend from three of the four corners on the starboard keel and one of the aft corners of the port keel. They are hairline cracks, max 50mm long. I have included a photo of the worst crack. There also appears to be corresponding stress cracking in the gel coat surrounding the internal keel bolts, see second pic. There is no evidence of any damage to the keels and there is no movement in the keels. Is this cause for concern, or to be expected of a bilge keeler of this age? We intend to have all the cracks ground back to solid GRP and rebuilt using GRP. But I would be very grateful for any thoughts on how serious or otherwise an issue like this is. If we do purchase this boat we will be intending to beach it regularly. Thanks very much in advance for any advice.

 

[Bob Herbert]

Hi Tom
I wouldn't be too worried about the internal cracks it is probably where the internal coating (flowcoat) gets too thick when laying up and they are not corresponding to the outside cracks.
Was the surveyor concerned? If there was no blistering and the moisture readings were not excessively high, grinding them out and doing the repair you mentioned should be enough.
Don't forget the boat has been sitting on those keels for many years if the boat is hauled out for the winter.
The surveyor should be giving recommendations in his report.
Rgds
Bob H

 

[Tom Bradshaw]

Thanks very much for you advice Bob. The excerpt below is taken from the survey report:

‘Both hull-keel joins were found to be in good order, with no evidence of rust emitting from the joins, or degradation of the bedding compound. Both keels were “tip tested” whilst the vessel was held in the crane slings. No movement of the joins were noted.

No evidence of damage to the bases of either keel was noted.

Surrounding the starboard side keel, externally, three GRP cracks were noted (starboard side forward corner, and port and starboard side aft corners). Internally, surrounding all visible starboard side keel bolts, evidence of stress cracking was noted. Surrounding the portside keel, externally, one GRP crack was noted, at the portside aft corner. Internally, surrounding the visible portside keel bolts, pressure cracking was visible, although less than the starboard side keel.

No evidence of delamination surrounding either the port or starboard bilge keel mountings was noted.

All visible keel studs, nuts and backing plates were inspected. All keel bolts have been flow coated with white gelcoat. No evidence of movement, or corrosion of the keel bolts was noted during the inspection. No evidence of cracking of the flow coat, which would suggest keel movement, was found.

The exact cause of the cracking surrounding the keel mountings is unknown. Due to there being evidence of cracking both externally and internally, surrounding both the port and starboard side keel mountings, I recommend that remedial work will need to be undertaken. All visible cracking will need to be ground back to solid GRP, and rebuilt using GRP, with gelcoat to finish. This should be undertaken before the vessel is beached regularly, as the cracking will likely develop further.’

I have had a quote for £5,000 to carry out this repair work. Does this all sound acceptable? Thanks in advance.

 

[Bob Herbert]

Hi Tom
If you have a dremel you could grind the internal cracks out to see how deep they are but in the end of the day if the surveyor's report is not followed and you have trouble in the future the insurance companies could make life very difficult.
The cost of the repairs can always be negotiated in the price.
What you are trying to find out is whether the cracks go deep into the fiberglass.
I have no idea what the cost should be to do the works.
Rgds
Bob H

 

[Tom Bradshaw]

Thank you very much Bob. I am definitely going to follow the surveyor's advice and have the repairs carried out as suggested. My query was more along the lines of if this damage is thoroughly investigated and professionally repaired, should we have every confidence in the boat going forward, especially as we intend to dry out frequently. The surveyor does not think it is necessary to remove the keels, which I am taking as a good sign. But as a primary reason for us buying the boat is the ability to regularly dry out and possibly even keep it on a drying mooring I want to be confident in it's ability to safely do this.

 

[Barry Voysey]

As soon as the surveyor has written "I recommend ... " then your insurance is likely to insist on it being done and in the timescale they have proposed. Re regular drying out, the surveyor who inspected my bilge keel 336 commented that this was a large yacht for bilge keels and effectively occasional drying out would be ok but would not advise continual drying out on an exposed mooring. Of course the 38 is a bit longer and thus a bit heavier.

 

[Bob Herbert]

Hi Tom
I personally wouldn't have a problem with it regularly drying out.
Unless you are keeping it in a marina/very sheltered berth I suspect you will be bringing it ashore for the winter?
If not when you dry out for a scrub or if you can inspect the keels on a regular basis you now know what to look for, if you see signs of cracking then you'll know why and act accordingly.
The keels aren't loose or deformed, you don't have water in the bilges, the hull substrate isn't alarmingly wet (the surveyor doesn't mention moisture content?) there really isn't much to worry about.
If the the keels were loose and moved, cracks had opened up, gel coat missing, moisture readings off the scale, brown stains in the bilges, flo coat missing off the keel studs, and the studs severely rusty, that would be a different story.
All boats flex and all original Moody's are getting long in the tooth, once the repairs are finished you'll get another 30 years use.
I once walked away from a M27 after the surveyor found car filler at the front of the fin keel where it joins the hull! It had hit something when under way! On closer inspection of the keel bolts you could see the keel had been pushed up at the aft end.
BR
Bob H

 

[Peter Fleming]

Thankfully this is not an area I have (yet!) had to contend with, but to me, time of purchase is the best time to be a bit cautious… especially as you have a chance to use repair costs as leverage to price. On that note, although the surveyor has not recommended dropping the keels, it may in fact turn out to be necessary… have a read of @Andrew Easton post in this recent thread:

https://www.moodyowners.info/threads/leak-after-hitting-a-rock.28521/

Also, on the internal pic you posted, as well as the stress cracking you point to there looks to be a bigger crack running along the floor behind the stud.

It is not a deal-breaker - once properly repaired the hull will be good as new, but the £5k for the repair as quoted, would easily double if you end up having to drop the keels so if it were me, I would be considering that as part of the negotiations… or don’t close the deal until after the repairs are done and inspected/signed off.

Peter

 

[Bob Herbert]

The long crack running longitudinally is probable from excess flo coat when it was built and has sagged and cracked, it's not unusual to see cracks like that in the corners where there is a direction change of the moulding. I have one on deck where the coach roof blends into the side deck. These sort of cracks are not uncommon. If they were ground out you would see they are superficial and don't go into the fiberglass lay up.
Rgds
BH

 

[Tom Bradshaw]

Thank you very much everyone for your very useful advice, it's really appreciated.